Wednesday, February 6, 2013

WHERE DO YOU FIT IN THE ISRAELI ELECTORATE

In emailing with a friend he told me that he took a poll at the Israeli Democracy Institute's website regarding Political Compass in Israel.

What happens, is that they ask a number of questions regarding your political thoughts and then place you on a grid to give you an idea where you stand. Now, for a couple of years I have always thought of myself as a Left Center type guy with tendencies towards social justice and/liberty. In commentary, I always said that I fit with either Avodah (Labor) and HaTanuah (Tzipi Livni's Party), SO... when my friend mentioned this to me I decided to take the poll and see where I came out.

Surprise of Suprise, there were seven parties in my range. The closest was HaTanuah, and AmShalem (this surprised me at first until I read up on them - but they didn't cross the threshold so...) and then I was right in between Avodah, Yesh Atid, and Kadima.  On the outskirts was UTJ and Tal (the Arab Party).

The furthest party from me (and I am proud to say this) was Otzma L'Yisrael, Yisrael Beitanu, HaBayit HaYehudi, and Hadash. And then at about equal distances Meretz, Likud, Shas, Balad,

Needless to say I was pretty proud of this because this is kind of where I thought I would land. I am no radical leftist though I lean left, and I for sure am no Rightist. It was nice to see that confirmed. So pretty much I guess this dispells the nonsense over at Daily Kos about me being a Rightist. Where one Celtic Merlin had this to say:
"Lately - over about the last 12 to 15 months - he has moved more and more in line with Israeli hard-liners"
 Whoops... Oh well facts are always pesky things.

Anyway, here is the link to the test: 2013  Israeli Election Compass - Where do you fit in... Please let me know.

73 comments:

  1. "Oh well facts are always pesky things."

    Indeed....but I won't dwell on that. Just dropped in to say good on ya for the GBCW. It was great and you were right to do it. Totally in the right on what led to it as well. That swamp never deserved you anyway.

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    1. Thanks Doodad... I do appreciate the kind words. Honestly, seeing the savaging I am taking over there from the nuts is sort of gratifying. I mean they are completely over the edge. It is sort of funny. Jesse CW and some of the others are so excited they are frothing at the mouth, and pretty much making up anything and everything. I guess no lie is too small for them. Oh and in Flyswatterbanjo's lie... I was banned once and NR'd twice. She is a freakin' idiot and serial liar.

      I have to say in reality that I am really touched by Hey338too and bevenro and Lefty and JNEREBEL for their support.

      So... did you take the test? If so, Where did you come out?

      Delete
  2. Will also say that the episode at DKos was inappropriate, yet not unexpected. This is what occurs when one points out that the real victims are the Jews, and Israel as the collective Jew, while the victimizers rely on hatred and spread deception.

    As for the test, it seems the result is not much different than your own, though here people are quick to cast labels as well.

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    1. Well I don't really want to spend anytime talking about that shithole of racism. They are who they are, and their lies bear them out.

      On the test... I will say I am surprised but ok... I am curious as to where you were relative to Likud, Beitanu, Otzma L'Yisrael, and HaBayit HaYehudi

      Delete
    2. They were all outside the circle, below and to the right.

      I do not give much credence to this stuff because there are issues involving the Israeli electorate, such as economics, that I have no real knowledge about and, as such, orient from a liberal perspective.

      The larger point I was making has to deal with the nonsense also found here that labels people as "Rightist" even as the test shows otherwise.

      Perhaps that should give you pause.

      Delete
    3. Ok... so be that as it may....

      I don't understand IF our perspectives are similar how you participate at site with your name on "contributors list" that promoted Moshe Feiglin and Naftali Bennett. What I don't understand is your lack of pushback against those two... OR if not pushback, why not inform them of what those guys are all about.

      You have read Zion Truth there. He wanted to vote for Otzma L'Yisrael a Kahanist party that advocates ethnic cleansing of Israel. Not one person said... "Hey, wait a minute what is this"?

      Perhaps the owner doesn't understand who those guys are or what policies they support? Does that person running a blog called Israel Thrives not really understand that much about Israel?

      Also you have another guy who rolls around talking about how President Obama is a secret Muslim (Randall Kohn). I mean come on... Don't you feel that if you believe so differently (as the Compass indicates and as you claim) then don't you feel you should at least take that to task?

      I am seriously asking you this. You suggest that it should give me pause... Ok, then help me to understand why no pushback against these things? Oh, and I don't mean disrespectful pushback I mean really trying to educate.

      Because honestly, I feel that if you ARE what you say you are then the only thing I can come up with is the "Any Ally in a storm", regarding issues and your issue seems to be "the Clash of Civilizations". Is that what drives this?

      Help me to understand.

      Delete
  3. Volleyboy1, I am glad you see you posting today. I know this isn't the place for meta-Kos, but WTF, what happened there sickens me. I happen to know a number of AIPAC members and alerted them to the situation as it was going down, the response was unsatisfactory to say the least. It took three mail messages to get anyone to actually look at the comments - once they saw Gershon's name they stopped reading and said they knew about him. I am hoping that they can learn from what happened to you, because your fight was actually their fight - and they should be the ones defending themselves. I look forward to continuing my Progressive Israeli education here, now that you are "Certifiably Progressive" on the compass! Best regards, Hey338Too

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    1. HEY MAN! Thanks for stopping in and thank you for your support there. I really, really appreciate it and I hope you will be part of this blog as well... Honestly, now that I am out of there I literally feel better. I am going to post both here and at the Motley Moose. They are a bunch of good people, who are really reasonable.

      As for AIPAC, as you know, I am not really a supporter but, at the same time I don't like to see them villanized like in some cartoon. They are very good at what they do, and despite assholes like Gershon and crew say, they don't run the U.S.

      His inclusion of AIPAC in that diary was uncalled for and frankly tipped off his "self-hatred" and real anti-Israel position. He could have wondered why so much questioning regarding Israel (and I think I know) without including Z.O.G. BUT he just couldn't help himself.

      Funny, I wondered at the questioning too, and then I looked at the question distribution and there are a few things that make sense. For instance, Gillibrand, the # 1 questioner regarding Israel. Well, she is in NY and Jewish voters make up a large part of her constituency. So they want to know about Hagel... I get that.

      Or the Republicans. They just want to take shots at the President AND play to what they see is a split in the Jewish vote (even though there is not one). That pretty much explains that. Now I know that this is much more boring than the Useful Idiots "Teh Jooz run Washington", but that is what it is.

      Anyway, where did you fit in on the Compass?

      Delete
    2. It's interesting. The result said that I should try those M&M's with pretzels in them.

      I don't know that I was able to give the poll a fair shot. I wound up almost directly in between Hatnu'a and Am Shalem, shaded toward the latter. So I was in the upper left quadrant, about 1/4 of the way along the x-axis and about 1/10 of the way along the y axis. By comparison, on an "American" political compass I'm -6, -4.6 (so definitely lower left quadrant). I couldn't help but answer many of the qualifying questions with my "American political hat" on. With regard to the key players, there were many that I didn't have an informed opinion of. So my results may not be the same as if I was as fully informed as many on this site.

      As is always the case: The more you learn the less you know.

      Delete
    3. Heh... I go for the plain M&M's... the pretzels are too salty.

      Thanks for sharing the Israeli political axis thing. On the American one I was like at "Ghandi" Like -5, -2 (or (-3). I answered with my "American Political Hat" on as well... How can we do anything but... we're Americans.

      Still I thought it was a fascinating exercise.

      Delete
  4. Just as you participated at Daily Kos, among the likes of some you have mentioned.

    I will leave the labeling to you and your cohorts, not to mention the exaggeration of what people stand for, and taking it out of context to score points in a silly game. You have done this many times to me.

    I speak for myself on the blogs. It is not my responsibility to police others. But at least I know what motivates these people, and it is not hate, but to be free of hate. Not a one would maintain those positions if there was no direct threat of aggression directed at Jews. This includes Netanyahu, yet so many are unable to admit this fundamental distinction. Are Palestinians or Arabs or anyone else similarly threatened? Nor do they see all Muslims as a monolith, as many that accuse them apparently do. It matters little what they criticize. It's that they criticize at all.

    Have you ever read Eurabia?

    Do you believe a fundamental component of jihad is to use aggression against non-believers?

    Qaradawi just said that without killing apostates there would be no Islam. Is it wrong to point this out?

    Obama has appointed people that on the surface are either anti-Israel or overindulgent to groups like CAIR. What of his recent claim of credit for the changes in Egypt? Could you make that criticism among progressives and be treated fairly? Is the allegiance to Obama so great that we treat him as infallible?

    If some of this does not help you understand, so be it. Now that you can be detached from DKos, the ills of the progressive take may become more apparent. In many ways it's no better than the conservative, and in other ways it is actually worse. A deceptive Troubadour is a prime example of the latter.




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    1. OK that does help... BUT here is one major difference...

      Just as you participated at Daily Kos, among the likes of some you have mentioned.

      I always pushed back at Daily Kos, so I can't relate.

      Anyway, oldschool this diary is not about any of this.

      I appreciate your answer and I will leave it at that.

      Fair enough?

      Delete
    2. That's fine, but to say you always pushed back is a stretch. On the other hand, many who pushed back were ridiculed, ostracized and banned off the site well in advance of you.

      The diary is also about this. Didn't you raise the matter in it, when you said how off they were of you in their estimations?

      I would really like you to answer some of the questions I raised, especially if you have read Eurabia. Often, many of those that label have not even read what they criticize, but made their determination based on extraneous matter and characterizations by others. If nothing, that is what DKos shows more than anything.

      Later.

      Delete
    3. I haven't read it nor am I planning on reading it. Honestly I am not that interested in it given the review I read on the subject. (which was a positive review).

      oldschool, I don't need to read about how much Jews and America are hated in the Muslim world over and over and over again. I pretty much know it. It's a given for me that Jews and Israel, at least on a Macro level, are hated in the "Muslim World". But this website is not dedicated to that subject, there are plenty of places that are. Just not here. And no the diary is NOT about this and this is my problem with you.

      I don't see things the same way you do. I am not sure how you are not getting this concept. And no the diary is NOT about this and this is my problem with you.

      The diary is about Where does one fits in in the Israeli Polity NOT what are teh ebilz Muslims doing today.

      So, look, I am not going to have a discussion about what cleric said what or anything like that. For me when someone says something bad about the Jews.. I say "Wow, it must be a day ending in the letter "y".

      That is how I look at it. So please can you possibly respect the site and NOT push that discussion as it is NOT the topic of this diary.

      Delete
    4. You opened the door and asked me to explain myself and I did. I have, after all, been disparaged at this site on many occasions, by you and others, and was trying to get an understanding of where you are forming that basis. All this is in the context of your own experience, which you referred to and so have most of the comments.

      How much can be gleaned by this test anyway? As was mentioned, we wear an American political hat and some of these issues were clearly Israeli.

      In any event, I suggest that you read the book, closely, rather than a review. It helps to explain what has occurred since the 6 day war and why people can be universal human rights activists and liberals, yet have serious reservations about what threatens Jews and Western societies, even as slandered and called every name in the book by those who pay lip service to these principles.

      I also asked because I am confused why speaking out on these issues makes one a bigot or hater.

      Perhaps, after the experience at DKos, you might address these matters in the future, after we all know where we stand as imaginary Israeli voters who see things with American eyes.

      Delete
  5. I'd seen that right around the time of the election. It pegs me almost exactly on Labor, which is the party I would have voted for had I been entitled to vote. It's odd, though; I would have thought I'd be a little closer to Meretz than I actually am.

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    1. Interesting.. I had you pegged more towards HaTanuah for some reason. But very interesting. I thought I would have been closer to Meretz as well, but really I was almost as far from them as I was from Shas. (yeah I know that sounds weird).

      You can look up what your differences are by party and by question. It's pretty interesting.

      Delete
  6. Hey vb1, echoing Hey338Too's comments, I was sorry to see what happened to you on dailykos. I am a very infrequent commenter there, and I've always thought you were very stoic in dealing with the slime that often slithers around in there.

    On the Israeli compass I was just slightly down from Kadima though politically I am probably more of a Likud supporter. I am not a political progressive in US, but a secular Zionist. It is very disgusting what is happening on the Left in US and the hate that continues to flow at Israel and Zionists and frankly Jews in general from these so called progressives. Trying to argue about the threat that Israel faces, the enemies it is surrounded with, and tremendous hypocrisy that is shown from the Left with regard to the Muslim states, is like barking at the moon.

    The problem is that Israel is successful in the midst of a bunch of degenerate Arab states, and also that America supports Israel. Those are the major factors that contribute to the Progressives' knee-jerk support for the unsuccessful and those who would try to stick US in the eye. The fight of the failed states and/or peoples led by failed leaders (i.e. Palestinians) against those who've succeeded and are prospering is not automatically just or moral. But that's just my take.

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    1. Thanks for your kind words Cryonaut. I too appreciate your comments at the GOS. You know, now that I am out of there I feel surprisingly better. All that whining and hate... It got to be a bit much. I guess I not that into the whole Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Jill Stein thing.

      I appreciate your honesty and self assessment of your own political philosophy. So I hope you will post here with us on occasion and inject your own take on Israeli and American politics.

      Counter to what some may say, I am ok with counter voices here but I just insist that they identify themselves as such. If I run into a Jewish Republican, as long as he/she is honest about who they are and what they believe, I can deal with it. This might not be the friendliest site for them but, I can respect a straight forward P.O.V.

      As for your take on Israel, I think we differ, BUT, I do agree with some of what you say. In particular I think a lot of so-called "progressives" really are just anti-U.S. more than they are anti-Semitic. They just dislike anyone and anything attached to the "American Brand".

      So please - feel free to add your voice here. Just be straight up like you are in this post and life will be fun. Heck, it will be a lot better than it was at the Great Orange Shitbag.

      Delete
    2. Thanks man. I didn't post much on Kos due to not being a liberal. I don't identify with GOP as much as I really don't identify with the Democrats. But that place has slid further and further towards the extreme of US political thought on the issue of Israel. I don't understand how anyone can rationally allocate all the blame to Israel and compare it to apartheid South Africa or even Nazi Germany.

      I've seen that Troubadour guy for what he is from the start of his posting there and dropped a few comments to that effect back then.

      Anyways, I'll try to contribute here as I can because I care about Israel and like discussing many of these issues. I am obviously Jewish and live in New York state. Some of my relatives live in Israel and my sister's husband is Israeli and almost his whole family lives there as well. But even if I had no one in Israel, that land is very dear to me and to many other Jews like us. These are the important things that bind us more than the other measly political issues that might divide us on the US political spectrum.

      Delete
    3. I can appreciate that cryonaut.

      I also appreciate the honesty in expressing your political view. I think we can have some good debates here.

      Gotta ask you one thing.. The name "cryonaut"... Are you into, cryonics? If so... that is interesting - my brother was one of the Pioneer's of Cryonics.

      Delete
    4. Heh, well, I am only a fan of the idea of cryonics. As an avid sci fi reader, cryonics really appeals to me, though the associated costs and the low potential for successful resuscitation are off-putting. But it is very cool to hear about your brother. That is an amazing field! I am sure your brother has an interesting and insightful take on the future of cryonics.

      Delete
    5. Well he doesn't have much of a take at this point since he is dead and frozen.... (Morbid humor here but he would laugh at this).

      But I worked with his wife on this stuff a bit.

      Anyway, I don't want to get too O/T but one day we can talk about it. There is a lot of cool stuff related to cryo technology.

      Delete
  7. I fit in right next to Yesh Atid and Am Salem. Had I been entitled to vote, I would have voted for Yesh Atid, so the result isn't surprising. There are several modern, liberal, religious Jews that ran with them and I suspect it would have been a very comfortable fit for me given that.

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    1. Makes sense... It is where I figured you would be. As I told Rustbelt Dem. at the Moose, I saw that debate and the Yesh Atid spokesman was you (not literally) but that was my thought.

      I thought the exercise was very interesting.

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    2. And, as I said over there, back in the day, I could have voted for the National Religious Party before the settlers took it over and turned it hard right and into the modern HaBayit HaYehudi.

      Delete
  8. (livosh1)
    Right before the election, I wondered how I'd vote if I could. I surmised that I would have been torn between Meretz, with whom I believed I was most aligned with, and Labor, on the (more practical) theory that I should vote for the left of center party that could most effectively form an opposition to Likud/Bateinu. That's not unlike how I think when voting in a Democratic Party -- where I typically give the most weight to which candidate gives us the best hope for prevailing against the Rethugs.

    Well, to my surprise, the compass has me pegged closest to Labor, with Meretz and Hatnuah tied at a very close second. Go figure. I didn't follow through closely enough to figure out why I'm closer to Labor than Meretz. Interesting.

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    1. Yeah, that makes sense for you as well... I can see you as close to Labor MORE so than Meretz. Personally, I like Meretz but I just don't agree with them on Security issues.

      If you click on the party you close to you can read how your positions match-up. It is worth a read. I also clicked on why I was so far away from Otzma and HaBayit HaYehudi. Turns out, I am just not that much of an Authoritarian.

      Who knew? HEH.....

      Delete
    2. Holy crap! I didn't realize that you had GBCW'd. That was an EPIC diary.

      I took the Israeli electorate test, but I don't really understand all of the parties. I ended up in the upper left quadrant, so I guess that means I'm on the right track!

      Delete
    3. Sorry...^^^that reply was supposed to be to volleyboy1's post, not livosh1's comment.

      Delete
    4. HAHAHA wasn't that a good one?

      Then the loons at DKos can't stop lying about what I believe. It's pretty funny.

      As for the parties in Israel, just click on the icons near you and they will tell you exactly (in English) who they are and how your positions meet with those parties. Then that will tell you which parties you most stand with... Upper Left... That sounds like Avodah, Meretz, and Hadash and Balad.

      Delete
  9. I came out right on top of Kadima! The next closest was Yesh Atid. I would have voted for Yesh Atid though.

    I am suspicious of that compass though. The reason is that UTJ was within my circle, and that is the absolutely last party I would ever vote for. I'd vote for Balad before I'd vote for them!

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    1. Makes sense actually.

      Also, you might be closer in theory to one party (Kadima) but think another one with similar values (Yesh Atid), has a better chance - so you vote that way. Kadima barely passed the threshold so I can see what you are saying.

      As far as the UTJ thing. Hey, they were in my circle (or just outside) as well but I wouldn't vote for them in 1000 years. The thing is that the compass measures similarities. SO if you click on the UTJ logo, you can see where you agreed with them and where you disagreed. They are fairly neutral on a lot of things and really they only care about the Haredi. SO.. it makes sense in that sense.

      Anyway, so far pretty interesting.. we have wiscmass and livosh firmly in Labor, that's drfreak around Labor Meretz, Me, Dr. Mike, Hey338too and oldschool in HaTanuah, you, Reuven, and cryonaut in the Yesh Atid, Kadima area..

      You know what we don't have is anyone around Likud-Beitanu (though cryonaut thought he might be there) or HaBayit HaYehudi, Otzma L'Yisrael (which I am kind of happy about). I guess for all the talk about how we love AIPAC and Likud - none of that is really true. Oh well....

      Delete
    2. FWIW, I was closer to Am Shalem than anything else.

      Delete
    3. Ah ok... I thought you said you were around where I was. Who is the second closest then?

      Delete
  10. When The majority coalition in Israel includes an Arab party, then Israel might not be seen as a racist apartheid nation.

    VolleyBoy1 you are a racist pig and I hate your god damn guts you coward. You won't debate me but you sure will delete the post because you are so afraid of people pointing out your piggish flaws.

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    1. BWAHAHAHA - This is great...

      First of all: This is classic

      VolleyBoy1 you are a racist pig and I hate your god damn guts you coward.

      Says the ANONYMOUS POSTER on teh Intertoobz. You do see the irony of this? Right?

      Second there is this:

      You won't debate me but you sure will delete the post because you are so afraid of people pointing out your piggish flaws.

      Who are you oh brave Keyboard Jihadi? I won't debate you? What in the world are you talking about? You just posted anonymously. Are you really this stupid????

      Okay now to your main point Dumbass...

      When The majority coalition in Israel includes an Arab party, then Israel might not be seen as a racist apartheid nation.

      You do realize that none of the Arab Parties actually support any Zionist aspect of the State - right? I mean you understand that the Arab parties don't recognize that Israel was formed to be the National Homeland and State of the Jewish People - Right?

      SO then if you know these things, why in the world would any ruling coalition include parties in it that fundamentally don't accept the legitimacy of said State? Are you really this dumb?

      OH and, which coalition do expect to see the Arab Parties joining into. What, you think they want to join a coalition led by Likud??? BWAHAHAHAHA

      Thanks for the comic relief today.

      Have a good one.

      Delete
    2. Hey Anonymous,

      Are you aware that the first Israeli government majority coalition included the Arab party of that time? It was called the Arab List of Villagers and Bedouins, and it was in Ben Gurion's coalition.

      But then in the 70s the major Arab parties decided to go from working within Israel's democratic framework to advocate for their sector to instead focusing on being hypocritical anti-Zionist fuckwads like yourself, and therefore were no longer welcome in the governing coalitions, since they don't even accept the state.

      It seems by your directly incorrect statement that you are like every other anti-Zionist in the world, who pontificates endlessly about Israel but knows nothing about it. Sad, really.

      Delete
    3. Heh... good points fiz... but you know this idiot is sitting back with his little neo-Nazi buddy chuckling to himself, thinking; "Ha... I sure showed those evil JOOZ something". He or she won't even bother to actually learn about the subject, because that is not why they are here. They are simply here to troll and get their kicks from being an ass.

      I mean the dumbshit called me a coward while posting as ANONYMOUS on my site. And then said I wouldn't debate him/her as if I even had an idea who they are.

      My guess is it's Choomin/Romo/Obamalover20122. What do you think?

      Delete
    4. You might be better off asking this person, and others that parrot the apartheid line, to read this:

      Israel's Arabs: Deprived or Radicalized?

      by Efraim Karsh
      Israel Affairs
      January 2013, pp. 1-19

      http://www.meforum.org/3423/israel-arabs-deprived-radicalized

      Why, indeed, did Arab dissidence increase dramatically with improvements in the standard of living, and why did it escalate into an open uprising after a decade that saw government allocations to Arab municipalities grow by 550 per cent, and the number of Arab civil servants nearly treble?

      The truth is that the growing defiance of the state, its policies, and its values was not rooted in socioeconomic deprivation but rather in the steady radicalization of the Israeli Arab community by its ever more militant leadership, not unlike their mandatory predecessors.


      Karsh concludes:

      A 2007 survey, for example, revealed a surprisingly high level of support for the idea of voluntary civil service among Israeli Arabs: 75% among young Arabs (aged 16-22), 71.9% among Arab men, and 89% among Arab women.[68] Another silver lining may be found in the fact that whenever an Israeli politician proposes the inclusion of some frontier Israeli-Arab settlements in the future Palestinian state, as part of a land exchange within the framework of a peace agreement, the residents of these localities immediately voice their indignation. Indeed, even most East Jerusalem Palestinians, who are entitled to Israeli social benefits and are free to travel across Israel's pre-1967 borders, would rather become citizens of the Jewish state than citizens of a new Palestinian one.[69] They all seem to be keenly aware that life in a civil, democratic, and pluralistic society, albeit a Jewish one, is preferable to what is on offer in the Palestinian Authority and the neighbouring Arab states.

      One can only hope that, unlike their destructive predecessors, Israel's Arab leaders would pay greater heed to the wishes of their constituents and halt their steady drive towards an all out collision. Given their conduct over the past decades, this may prove one hope too many.

      Delete
    5. You should change your nick to strawboy1 since all of your arguments are strawmen. Also, all your arguments are racist. "Keyboard Jihadi"? What are you? The male version of Pam Gellar?

      You are a joke and always have been strawboy1. You are a racist shit poster who's gets his marching orders from groups like AIPAC, MEMRI, and CAMERA because you are too dumb to argue with original content.

      Oh yeah thanks for the "info" oldschoolshabdoo. Don't you have a mosque to protest in NY?

      Delete
    6. Bwahahaha Anonymous - you are good for comic relief...

      You are a joke and always have been strawboy1.

      Ok.. cool then why are you wasting your valuable time in between KKK and ANSWER rallies hanging out at this blog?

      You are a racist shit poster who's gets his marching orders from groups like AIPAC, MEMRI, and CAMERA because you are too dumb to argue with original content.

      Hey, you seem to know me really well also. Perhaps you and geoffff below can get together and you guys can debate exactly who I really am - Anti-Zionist Jew Hater... OR... Crazed Zionist Puppet.

      In fact I think you should go to his site where he is apparently planning on featuring me in his posts.

      Delete
    7. Hey Anonymous,

      What about my comment? You know, the one where I corrected you because you said something false, and showed that you don't actually know anything about Israel?

      Delete
    8. You are welcome. Glad I could be of assistance. The fact that the best you can do is disparage shows how empty your position is.

      Would you cheer if someone committed violence against those that don't agree with you. That is my sense from the hate that drips from your words.

      Delete
    9. Fizziks: I would answer you but you are a known liar and racist. I loved your article posted on this site harping on multiculturalism.

      oldschool: No, I never cheer when Israel commits violence, intimidation, degradation, and RAPES of the Palestinian people. Only you cheer that stuff since you are a white supremacist.

      strawboy1: Do you have a mental breakdown whenever someone tells the truth about Israel? I love how your site links to "divest this" which if you read the credits on who sponsored and/or wrote it, it is a who's who of neocons. Bravo!

      When the Palestinians parties are allowed to participate in the ruling coalition then you might have a point. Right now no Palestinian has any representation in the government that rules them. Israel is simply an apartheid nation and everyone who is a member of this blog is a hate mongering racist.

      Delete
    10. You are misinformed and filled with hate.

      I have never cheered a rape of anyone. I am no white supremacist. What kind of idiotic things to say.

      Palestinian leaders treat their own worse than Israeli leaders do. Only fools are ignorant to this.

      Delete
    11. Anon... all you have done is wander around calling people racists, you haven't actually said anything of substance at all.

      SO we get that you hate me and that you anonymously like to tell me that I am a coward. We get that you know absolutely nothing about this conflict as is evident from your commentary.

      So let me ask you again... you say this:

      Right now no Palestinian has any representation in the government that rules them. Israel is simply an apartheid nation and everyone who is a member of this blog is a hate mongering racist.

      1. Which Arab party WANTS to actually join the Netanyahu coalition? How would that work out?

      2. Since you think we are all "hate mongering racists", why do you hang out at this blog? I mean are you that obsessed with me, that you just love hanging with a bunch of "hate mongering racists". That's kind of weird, don't you think?

      Oh yeah, and I forgot, Are you Romo/Choomin/Obamalover? That is my bet. Others think you are Merlin, but I don't think so. You just don't fit his M.O. Anyway, since you are talking about me being a coward... how about you just tell us who you are (not in real life, just what your internet name is)?

      Delete
    12. I will tell you who I am if you tell me who your new zombie on dailykos is. I already know who fizziks and oldschool is zombie.

      Also, as I recall, you specifically said no Jewish party would join up with an Arab party so the 60/60 split was meaningless. That was in a recent dailykos diary on the Israeli elections. That and every member of this blog at one time or another uprating a comment made by sandbox makes you all racist piggish scum.

      Delete
    13. LOL I am not zombie'ing back. I have no reason to go the Great Orange Shithole.

      I am just posting here and one other place. Sorry but, when I said "Goodbye", I meant it.

      NOW... anyway, are you really that obsessed with me that you just absolutely have to hang out with me here. I mean really, what does that say about you?

      Ok buddy, you can tell me or not, it's just that when you call people "cowards" and then refuse to own up to your own rhetoric... well that is what's known as Ironic. Heh.

      Delete
    14. Yes, and as your language indicates, you are just all sweetness and light.

      It always amuses me when those like yourself, who falsely proclaim to stand for truth and justice and against racism and oppression, see fit to call others scum and the like, to show how much they care.

      Delete
    15. Also, as I recall, you specifically said no Jewish party would join up with an Arab party so the 60/60 split was meaningless. That was in a recent dailykos diary on the Israeli elections. That and every member of this blog at one time or another uprating a comment made by sandbox makes you all racist piggish scum.

      For those that don't know, sandbox was one of the NY city mosque protestors and actively voiced his/her opinion on dailykos and Fizziks as well as Rueben actively uprated him/her.

      Delete
    16. Oh yeah you are so unoriginal that you ripped off your line by line addressing of a persons argument (terribly i might add) from this guy.

      http://i.imgur.com/Ck5w1J0.jpg

      Delete
    17. Gotcha. DKos ratings game is your reality. There's that scum thing again, not to mention the rest.

      Speaking of the mosque, since you mentioned it, you must know that Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf is accused:

      of diverting $167,000 from private donations and $3 million from the Malaysian government for his personal use.

      The money was intended for the Cordoba Initiative and the American Society for Muslim Advancement, two non-profits founded by Rauf aimed at educating the public about Islam and combating anti-Islam sentiment, the lawsuit said.

      Rauf used the money to pay for vacations, real estate, entertainment, a luxury sports car and other gifts and lavish lifestyle perks for himself and his wife, the lawsuit said. The lawsuit also accused Rauf of falsifying the two groups' tax returns for several years to conceal fund transfers and sources.


      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf-embezzlement_n_2625660.html

      What a piggish thing to do, wouldn't you say? Would you give him an uprate?

      Delete
    18. And what does that have to do with the mosque? That one person was a scammer in NYC? That wasn't why you where against the mosque in the first place.

      Oldschool you are a pam gellar racist. Seek treatment you piggish zionutzi.

      Delete
    19. That "one person" was the Imam for the mosque and a leader in the public debate to build it. Are you really that uniformed?

      Nor was I against the right to build the mosque. Shows what you know. I am not such a fool, however, to believe it was proposed to show tolerance. I will leave that to the intolerant like yourself.

      You sound like a true hater to me, while posing as the opposite, as if you care one bit about racism. The best you can offer is name calling and information that shows how truly ignorant you are.

      It's why I have such fun letting you show what a fraud you are.

      Delete
  11. Note to Geofffffff...

    You can post that crap all day long, but, just as easily as you can cut and paste... I can delete. AND delete I will. This diary has NOTHING to do with what you and oldschool want to bring in.

    If you don't like what this blog is about, then here is a novel idea... Don't post here. Pretty Simple really. Even you should be able to understand that.

    You have plenty of other Right Wing Blogs and Blogs that like to discuss how ebilz teh Muslims and Arabs are. You are a contributor in one place (and have your own place) that does just that so.. what I recommend that you do is post at those sites.

    NOW.. if you want to discuss what our diaries and articles are about... Dynamite. Come on down, talk about them. BUT know that the second you start trying to push an agenda that cartoonishly villanizes one side... your comment will magically disappear.

    If you haven't noticed, the name of this blog is "The Progressive Zionist". THAT is our orientation. We are not "The We Hate Arabs Blog" and we are not "Islam is teh ebilz blog" AND we are not the "I love the settlements and Naftali Bennett is my hero" blog. Those blogs are that way ----->

    Do we understand each other?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. oh I understand you very well volleyboy1

      much better than you think

      you on the other hand have not the remotest clue about me

      http://geofffff.blogspot.com.au/

      Delete
    2. I do not appreciate that you deleted my comment.

      I am also disturbed that you incorrectly inferred that I was trying to tell you what to post about, rather than just to determine what you know.

      Delete
    3. Great Geofffff I am glad that you "understand" me.

      That is wonderful.

      NOW... do you have something to contribute here or not. If not then I hope you have a great day and we'll see you when you do.

      IF on the other hand you do - then hey contribute away. As you see this diary is about where you fit on the Israeli Political Compass. I am in the area of HaTanuah, and Labor (see above). If you would like to take the test, do it and please let us know where you fit.

      Delete
    4. Why is there a such an anal phenomenon that the scope of a discussion must be limited, rather than allowed to take its course?

      The fact is that you said these things, yet restrict what is said in response to your words. No one besides you raised the idea that your site be dedicated to the issue of Muslim hatred toward Jews, a subject that you generally run from here, as if the mere mention of it is bigotry.

      Delete
    5. Why are you so fixated on what I do at my own site? I want to discuss the things in my diaries that's why I have a site, that's why I write my blogs. I am really not interested in going over 1000x per day how the Arabs and Muslims dislike Jewish people. You want to do that? You have a site... do it there. You have Israel Thrives... do it there, but don't do it here unless it is the topic of the diary.

      Oh and I have answered your questions a 100x in the past. You don't read my answers so frankly I am not interested anymore in them.

      Now, I don't get your fixation with me an my blog but if you can't play by the rules of the site then don't post here. IF you can manage to discuss the issues at hand in a reasonable manner then you are welcome to stay and participate. Z'Hakol.

      Delete
    6. I am not fixated, but simply stating what I think, which is that it resembles what one hears at DKos whenever the discussion goes where one might not like.

      The FACT is that you raised the matter, not me. If I say something and someone wants to follow up, I have no problem. Conversely, if you want to shut down discussion, or insert the guest in the house rules for that matter, it will be a reflection that you are the one not interested in discourse, despite what you say. Might as well change the colors to orange.

      Finally, you did NOT answer the questions I asked, nor do you do speak to the issue 1000 times per day. Can't you discuss things without the need to exaggerate?

      Delete
    7. And, by the way, the reason to raise the Muslim aspects of Jew hatred is because many progressives are ignorant about it, or think what Jews do is equivalent. Did I really need to explain that?

      Delete
  12. NOTE TO OLDSCHOOL: Actually your comment was collateral damage. When I deleted Geoff's spam yours went away. It was NOT my intention to delete it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. (livosh1)
      But as long as you are deleting, you really should delete his attempts to derail the discussion here. He wants another open hatefest, like that which occurs at that shithole where he and his buddies spew their vitriol. Those hateful views shouldn't be welcome here.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. Meh... I would just as soon let this thread die, as it was doing and go on to actually writing about different topics.

      I left up some of the commentary, particularly from the hate filled Anonymous poster because honestly, anyone reading the blog could see how ridiculous his useless and uninformed commentary is. IF he is indeed a representative of anti-Zionist thought then, it is pretty evident for anyone to see what a fool he is.

      The meta insults and lectures and so forth are just silly. Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are serious concerns but the fact is for me, I am full aware regarding them, so I don't need to go over the same turf, over and over and over again. There are other places for the one note ponies. They should post there. Of course, we deal with that, but from policy perspectives and honestly I would rather have a blog that discusses the politics (both good and bad) regarding what is happening in Israel and in the Jewish community (from a "realistic" perspective) rather than yelling and screaming all day about what various Jew Haters and batshit insane clerics are ranting about. As I said... my view in general is "Oh someone said something negative about Jewish People, why it must be a day ending in "y". "

      Delete
    4. First, I did not derail the conversation even one iota. Conversation should not be rigidly controlled. You barely have conversation here, as if there is a fear of it. I guess a couple of nodding comments would be preferable. You should be happy that I seek to engage in what otherwise is a rather boring exercise.

      Second, if anyone is hateful here, it is not me. I am NEVER hateful to other people, but I certainly feel it from Mr. Livosh, repeatedly, even calling for censorship, SOLELY because he cannot tolerate a different view. Some progressive attitude.

      I have also been lectured to call out people elsewhere, and in fact, I do. Does anyone here do that?

      To the main issue, if people here actually believe that most well intentioned progressives are attuned to the extent of hatred for Jews and Israel, then I suggest you are the ones not in the real world, but engaged in a different "one note" that also insults and seems incapable of discourse, except to agree with one another. Just too wrapped up to see.

      The Mutz paradox.

      Delete
  13. For an Australian or for that matter an American, living as we are a world away from where the Israelis live, to test where you fit in the Israeli polity strikes me as at the very extreme limit of intellectual arrogance. To say the least. In fact I think it is much worse than that but I don't wish to be provocative here.

    I'm told intellectual provocation, let alone dissent, does not go down well around here. I can see that. Cool. I'll save it for my blog where you will feature prominently in the next post.

    Take a bow. Better still post a response. I rarely censor even the most vile comments. I guess that's because I'm not a "liberal"

    This is not a game. The Israelis are not toys.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah ok geoffff - you have fun with your post. I am glad I can be a star in your constellation.

      Honestly mate, your not the brightest bulb on the tree. If you think I treat Israel as a toy you are even stupider than your posts seem.

      It's an interesting exercise and my Israeli friends thought it was pretty cool. SO... tell you what, rant and rave at your blog and let me know how it turns out. Ok?

      Delete
    2. I don't believe you have any Israeli friends

      Delete
    3. OH-TEH NOOOOOOZ - you found me out geoffff. Sitting in your basement in Australia, you sussed out exactly who I am and what I believe and not only that... you know who I hang out with and all that. How can I hope to ever fool such a clever man as you?

      So... tell you what, troll... Why don't you tell me exactly where you disagree with me on politics. I mean since you know me so well...

      Really, geoffff do you have anything to contribute to the discussion or do you want to sit around like some kind of hen, clucking and scolding people for everything your fevered imagination comes up with?

      Delete